Led Zep II tones using Amplitube

[Nbishop5]

HI folks,

I'm new to AT4 and so I'm still learning. I want to recreate Jimmy Page's guitar tone for Whole Lotta Love, etc. I'm willing to buy extras to achieve this but I can't identify what AMP/STOMP/CABS, etc.

Can someone tell me what I need to use and what settings I need for the AMP/STOMPS, etc. please?

[carlaz]

There is pretty vast uncertainty over just what was used on "Whole Lotta Love" in the studio. Many people seem to (not unreasonably) suspect a Telecaster into a Supro combo amp (the "Thunderbolt" or "Coronado" seem the models most often proposed), though some suggest that this set-up was only for the solos in "WLL", and the rhythm parts were done with a Marshall amp (and possibly an LP instead of a Tele). The solo, at least, may well have been boosted by a Sola Sound Tone Bender Professional MKII (which I understand is a bit like a Fuzz Face in some ways ... but different!)

There're no Supros in the Amplitube lineup, but you could try the '57 Champ from the Fender 2 collection, and maybe hit it with a Fuzz Age stomp model or (my usual fallback for treble-booster-type things) a Diode Overdrive (with the tone probably jacked up a bit).

All that said, though, my favorite approach to getting a Page-style tone is using the JH Gold, which technically models one of Hendrix's Marshalls (a 100w JTM45?), though I think it is as close as you will get to the Marshalls that Page was using from around '72-ish. I've heard Page's Marshalls were modded by the same guy who modded Hendrix's, which may be the case ... but in any event, I think the JH Gold is the obvious choice for Page tones in Amplitube. Probably into a vintage-type Marshall cab model, but maybe loaded with G12H30-type speaker models (e.g. like the Brit Anniversary models?) instead of the G12M-type speaker models (i.e. Brit Green). You see all kinds of claims made about amp settings online, though I personally tend to hear plenty of mids and highs and not overmuch bass. (Humbuckers into a vintage Marshall can be pretty bassy, which is why it seems to me that players back then used treble-boosters, turned the bass down and highs up, etc.) There's not really a lot fo gain; maybe jump the inputs on the JH Gold model and run things around 6 or 7?

I did once dial myself in what I thought was a fairly nice Page-style "light crunch" on a JH Gold setup in Amplitube, though I usually used it as a basis for slamming it with a pile of fuzz. I'm away from my Amplitube installation right now, but I should check and see what my settings on it are.

[Nbishop5]

Thanks Carloz, this is very helpful

[carlaz]

I went back and checked my "Page-esque crunch" settings on the JH Gold. We can't share AT4 presets in any official way, but I can at least tell you the settings I have.

Presence: 8.0
Bass: 0.5
Mid: 7.5
Treble: 5.7
Hi Treble Loudness 1: 7.0
Normal Loudness 2: 4.0
Normal/Hi Treble switch: Hi Treble
Bridge switch: Up

So, your mileage would vary, depending on guitar, pickups, etc. My LP has slightly hotter pickups than I expect Page's would have been in the early 70s, but my strings are relatively light by contemporary rock standards (as his were, back in the day). But the basic idea is limited bass, plenty of mid, treble, and presence, and volume not too much past 12 o'clock. That sounds like the Page basics, to me!

I actually set up the JH Gold this way in AT3 before you could play with the speakers in the cabs as in AT4, and the cabs I usually run into are not particularly Page-like: I was using the the 4x12 Closed J120 (from the Hendrix package) and 1960B cab model from the Slash package (which has V30s, not produced until the mid-'80s!). So, like I say, not authentically Zeppelin-esque in the cab department, but I was going for "in a Page-like zone" rather than trying to nail a specific Zep guitar tone. But you could play with the cabs and speaker combos in AT4, and then likewise twiddle the knobs on the amp model, and probably get closer for your particular guitar (and fingers).

I also tried using the Diode Overdrive pedal to imitate Page's early boost pedals, with the following settings:

Tone: 6.16
Dist: 6.56
Level: 0.0

That, now that I look at it (can't really plug in and hear it at the moment, as I'm typing!) seems odd: why do I have the distortion up and the level down? Usually people do the opposite when boosting with an OD pedal ..... Oh well! Maybe it made sense at the time! Anyway, the Diode Overdrive is at best a kludge in this context (I also try to set it differently to run into the JH Gold with somewhat different settings and then different cabs to produce an early Iommi tone), and of course it doesn't represent a Sola Sound Tone Bender (or a Dallas Rangemaster) very accurately!

But you ought to be able to get close enough to bang out some Zep riffs with a reasonably satisfying vibe.

[Nbishop5]

thank you again, this is great!

[carlaz]

One more thing ...

AFAIK, based on readily available photos/videos, Page did not jump the inputs on his Marshalls (as my settings above do), at least not externally. But his amps were modded somehow, so who knows whether they were just permanently jumped internally, or not? Depending on how you set the various "Loudness" controls for the channels, the effect of jumping can be more or less subtle. But I thought it sounded good with my LP, so there you go.

Oh, and one more other thing ...

Page used an Echoplex EP-3 from about '72 (for the live rig, of course -- which is what I'm trying to vaguely approximate with the JH Gold, anyway). EP-3s are famous for a slight bass cut and slight treble boost effect that (AFAIK) was operative even when the actual delay effect was not engaged. A whole bunch of '70s guitar gods (including Page) used to use an EP-3 as, more or less, a kind of treble booster. Amplitube has an older "based on EP-3" from the Hendrix collection, the "EP Tape Echo", but I never really got into this model for whatever reason; it seemed to darken things up a bit to my ears -- which is not really what's supposed to happen with an EP-3. More recently, Amplitube acquired a licensed model of the Fulltone Solid State Tape Echo (SSTE), which is basically a smartened up EP-3 clone. I love this model, and it's become my go-to delay in Amplitube. Amplitube presents the SSTE as a rack model, but IMO putting it in the stomp position is more "authentic" -- and, in fact, necessary if you want to use it as a pre-amp in front of your main amp. There are actually a whole pile of physical pedals that seek to replicate the Echoplex pre-amp booster (without the delay effect), but if you want to get all Page-esque, then you might need the delay anyway -- so the SSTE model is the way to go. (I really haven't experimented with it much as just a booster ... but I probably should!)

[Utkinpaul]

Hi, it is an old thread, sorry for bumping it. I am trying to help my daughter to practice Heartbreaker, she uses iPad iOS version of the app. So far we cannot find a good match there. It does not have a Diode Overdrive pedal, but most of other equipment matches Mac version. Any ideas of how to setup it? We have Hendrix and Fender bundles.

[carlaz]

she uses iPad iOS version of the app. So far we cannot find a good match there. It does not have a Diode Overdrive pedal, but most of other equipment matches Mac version. Any ideas of how to setup it? We have Hendrix and Fender bundles.

The iOS version of Hendrix has a JH Gold model, and the "4x12" A" cab model (i.e. "based on Marshall 4x12" Cabinet with 'Greenback' speakers") seems a suitable match. IMO, this should get close to a "generic Page" tone with something like the following settings:

Presence: 8.0
Bass: 0.5
Mid: 7.5
Treble: 5.7
Hi Treble Loudness 1: 7.0
Normal Loudness 2: 4.0
Normal/Hi Treble switch: Hi Treble
Bridge switch: Down (Page, didn't jump the inputs, but try the switch in the "Up" position if you like it better that way!).

You can try a little boost with the stock "Overdrive" stomp, if you like, though I don't think Page's Marshall tone should really need any boost. Likewise, play with the settings on the amp -- though I think generally Page has plenty of mids and highs, with much less bass.

The particular tones on the studio LP version of "Heartbreaker" are another thing, though. The main guitar parts for this were probably (IMO!) recorded (with a Telecaster) into a Rickenbacker Transonic 200 amp (solid-state!); cabs for those seem to have had various speaker configurations, but mixes of 12" and 15" Altec Lansing speakers seem common. He may have run through a Vox/Sola Sound Tonebender (Mk II) unit, though the Transonic would have also had a built in "fuzz" option (but since Page used Tonebenders elsewhere, perhaps that is most likely). There was apparently one close mic, and another waaay back. Then the solo was apparently recorded later, and may have been one of the first things for which Page used a Marshall.

Anyway, there is really nothing in AmpliTube iOS (or Desktop) that is (IMO) really very much like the Rick Transonic, its cabs with Altec-Lansing speakers, or Tonebender. Honestly, your guess is as good as mine! Still, if I were trying to capture that vibe, I might start with one of the Fender models (maybe starting with the ’57 Custom Champ from the iOS Fender 2) set pretty clean but loud, and then pummeling it with one of the fuzz stomp models. The Fuzz Face is supposed to be (as I understand it) similar to the Vox/Sola Sound Tonebender, but with perhaps a bit more low end. So ... try the Fuzz face, and push the tone up? Anyway, depending on how things went, I'd swap out fuzz models and play with their settings before I changed the amp, but I might just try a few different Fender models, depending on how things went.

[Utkinpaul]

Thx so much for very detailed response, we will try it out tonight. It is an excellent software, but amount of options in it is really challenging

[carlaz]

You're not wrong! With great power come great opportunities to get confused!

And the number of factors that go into affecting the recorded tones we hear on albums ... they are considerable. But, with any luck, we can get within shouting distance, at least, of the tones we hear on records on in our heads.

[gregory.glass]

I know it's an old thread, but just wanted to give a heads up that the Tube Vintage Combo amp is based on the Supro 1690T - this is THE Jimmy Page amp, and it sounds incredible - easily one of my favorites in the Amplitube line.

It doesn't get a lot of love because it doesn't have the branding, but try it out - it's killer.