Digging in to the AT4 speakers and cabs

[carlaz]

If you are viewing the stomps, you can right/context-click on a stomp model, and a menu pops up offering to let you save/load settings for the particular stomp or for the whole pedalboard. (And also to copy/paste settings from a the particular model.)

Likewise, right/context clicking on amp in that view pops up a menu offering you the options of saving/loading settings presets for that amp model, as well as copying/pasting the current settings.

Similar to the amp model view, right/context clicking on the loaded cab in the cab room pops up a menu offering you the options of saving/loading a particular "cab" model (which I presume currently means the combination of cab and speakers, and probably the mic placement, though I have not really played with this yet!), as well as copying/pasting the current settings.

[n2mpujack]

If you are viewing the stomps, you can right/context-click on a stomp model, and a menu pops up offering to let you save/load settings for the particular stomp or for the whole pedalboard. (And also to copy/paste settings from a the particular model.)

Likewise, right/context clicking on amp in that view pops up a menu offering you the options of saving/loading settings presets for that amp model, as well as copying/pasting the current settings.

Similar to the amp model view, right/context clicking on the loaded cab in the cab room pops up a menu offering you the options of saving/loading a particular "cab" model (which I presume currently means the combination of cab and speakers, and probably the mic placement, though I have not really played with this yet!), as well as copying/pasting the current settings.

Thanks for the explanation - I didn't know any of this could be done. Some good sleuthing on your part and much appreciated.

[carlaz]

One of the IK guys on the forums here pointed out to me the capacity to save/load individual gear/model presets, as well as to copy/paste individual model settings! That was in AT3, but I think the "save/load whole pedalboard" thing is new in AT4. (It was something discussed in the interminable "AT4 wishlist" threads! So it's nice to see it picked up. )

But this does additionally highlight the need for a proper AT4 manual, as well as probably tutorial videos. I don't think the save/load/copy/paste capacity for individual models was even mentioned in the AT3 manual -- or, if it was, it remains pretty well hidden, since I just went looking for it and couldn't find it!

[n2mpujack]

One of the IK guys on the forums here pointed out to me the capacity to save/load individual gear/model presets, as well as to copy/paste individual model settings! That was in AT3, but I think the "save/load whole pedalboard" thing is new in AT4. (It was something discussed in the interminable "AT4 wishlist" threads! So it's nice to see it picked up. )

But this does additionally highlight the need for a proper AT4 manual, as well as probably tutorial videos. I don't think the save/load/copy/paste capacity for individual models was even mentioned in the AT3 manual -- or, if it was, it remains pretty well hidden, since I just went looking for it and couldn't find it!

A good manual - yes!!!!
Tutorial videos - a qualified yes. I say qualified because while someone from IK doing them might be nice, at the same time they may gloss over things that individuals out in the wild like you and I might not find or know about. Maybe someone from Groove 3 could do one? Eli Krantzberg would be a good choice given what I've seen in his other videos on the G3 site.

[carlaz]

You're not wrong -- though I'm also worried that there are likely to be things that only people from IK know about (like the un- or at-least-not-well-documented model presets!).

[Mickemowsecapade]

I've composed my own list of what each speaker is in the new AT4.
There were a couple I needed help on (in which I consulted a list that was posted by another some time ago. I had to see for myself, so 90% of my list is from my own finding

HiAmp - Fane Purplebacks (HiWatt)
Brit Green - Celestion G12M
Brit T12G - Celestion G12T?
Brit V1 - Vintage 30 (Gold, 8 Ohm, 60w)
Brit V2 - Vintage 30 (Silver, 16 Ohm, 60w)
Brit V3 - Vintage 30
Brit Alnico S - Celestion B025 (Eric Clapton Bluesbreakers Beano tone!)
Brit 75 - Celestion G12T-75
Brit Vintage 8 - Vintage 30 8 Ohm
Brit Vintage 16A - Celestion Vintage 30 16Ohm
Brit Vintage 16B - Celestion Vintage 30 16Ohm
Brit Alnico B - Celestion Alnico Blue
Brit Alnico G - Celestion Alnico Gold
Brit Darkness - Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow MC90
Brit Anniversary 1 - Celestion G12H30 70th Anniversary (Silver, 16ohm)
Brit Anniversary 2 - Celestion G12H30 70th Anniversary (Gold, 8 Ohm)
Brit 100 - Celestion G12K-100
Brit Silver - Celestion G12-65 (reworked G12M)
Brit 80- Celestion G12-80 (reworked G12H)
Silver Alnico - Fisher 12-4L (4 Ohm Silvertone 1482)
American Alnico - Jensen P12R
American Bulldog - Fryette G100E
EV Darkness - Mesa/Electro-Voice Black Shadow EVM12L
California Red - JBL D120F
CV GT12-16 - Carvin GT12-16
Metal 1200 - Peavey Sheffield 1200
Jazz 12 - Roland JC120 speakers
Custom Fender - Eminence/Fender “Special Design” Speaker

As for whether all 4 speakers being different/same has an effect (even though only 2 are mic'ed) on the tone, I can say with full confidence, YES. This is a representation of the real world; as long as your amp has some volume to it, you'll hear the other two speakers bleeding into any active microphones placed nearby. That's why recording 4x12s offers a more meaty, throatier tone than just recording a lone 1x12. I know some people wonder why you'd bother using a 4x12 when you're only mic'ing one speaker, and the aforementioned is why--its about bleed.

[jjguitar]

I think these 3 are:

American Bulldog = VHT G-100-E Pitbull
Brit Alnico S = Celestion Silver Bell
Brit Silver = Celestion V60

[carlaz]

I'm necro-bumping this thread as I'm still trying to work out some of the speaker/cab relationships. Actually, I've been putting together a list of cab and speaker models, trying to work out what is based on what a little more closely. Here are a few of the issues currently at the top of my list:

In which cabinet models do the Brit Anniversary 1, Brit Anniversary 2, Brit 100, Brit Vintage 16A, and Brit T12G speaker models appear? (I don't have all the existing cab models, and I suppose I could get them one-by-one as trial pieces from the Custom Shop ... but perhaps someone just knows? )

The Brit T12G speaker is particular opaque to me; it seems likely to be some kind of "based on Celestion G12T-?" thing, but as the Brit 75 is pretty surely the G12T-75, and the Brit 100 is already speculated to be the G12K-100, then what's the Brit T12G? A G12T-100? Anyway, knowing in which cab model it appears might help.

Is the Brit 80 model more likely to be based on the G12-80 or the (closely related but different) Classic Lead 80? (Or does it really matter, in the case of a digital model? )

The 4x12 Red Pig cab model is ... odd. The official description (in the manual) reads "Marshall® Major 4x12” Slanted, T75" though the speaker models are actually the the Brit 80 (i.e. G12-80 or Classic Lead 80). Yet none of those speakers would seem entirely appropriate for the Red Pig cab model, which is based on the Marshall Major, produced from around 1967 to 1974, while the G12-80 didn't appear until around 1978 (and was replaced by the Classic Lead 80 a few years later). Wouldn't players who used Majors "back in the day" have had to have used cabs with G12Ms (i.e. Amplitube's Brit Green speakers model) or G12Hs?

[carlaz]

OK, I've answered most of my own questions about the speaker models now, having grabbed all the guitar-cab models with 12" speakers as trials from Custom Shop and having run through the list and compared with various online speaker and cab info.

I've written up a document for my own purposes which I think captures all the info on which 12" guitar speaker models are (IMO, probably) modelled on which real speaker and in which cab model(s) they are used. I'd be happy to share it here, though I don't think I can make a file attachment to these posts. I guess I could post it directly in the Facebook preset group, but perhaps I can upload it somewhere and put a link to it from this forum. I'd be interested to know others thoughts, whether they have any suggestions or corrections -- and maybe I can make a better, updated version.

[sschow1]

I'd really like to get a copy of that Speaker list you painstakingly put together if you have it still. If so I can PM you my email I guess...

[carlaz]

I'd really like to get a copy of that Speaker list you painstakingly put together if you have it still. If so I can PM you my email I guess...

Sure, go ahead. Then I'll email it to you. I'm afraid I still haven't got a better way of distributing the file! I did post it as an attachment on the Facebook presets group, but it would probably be a chore to dig up that post by now.

[n2mpujack]

I'd really like to get a copy of that Speaker list you painstakingly put together if you have it still. If so I can PM you my email I guess...

Sure, go ahead. Then I'll email it to you. I'm afraid I still haven't got a better way of distributing the file! I did post it as an attachment on the Facebook presets group, but it would probably be a chore to dig up that post by now.

And not everybody does Facebook you know.

[felipecouto75]

I really like the cabinet section of Amplitube 4, but I have some questions about the fidelity of the simulation compared to a real world cabinet:

1) Why does the same speaker configuration sound dramatically different across cabinets? I thought it would be more subtle.

2) Does the old Amplitube 2, Hendrix and Metal cabinets with different speaker configurations work the same way as the new cabinets? Or is the speaker swap technique more recommended only in exclusive Amplitube 4 cabinets?

Finally, I would suggest that the software feature recommended microphone placement settings for single microphone situations. Is very common to use only one Shure 57 to get classic rock sound, for example.

[sschow1]

You can use the mixer to mute one mic

There is really no such thing as ideal mic position, but what would be cool would be more cab layout presets

[sschow1]

I found this list at GearSlutz, which seems pretty accurate, but I look forward to see carlaz's list.

American 12C = Jensen C12Q
American 12K = Jensen C12K
American Alnico = Jensen P12Q (or R)
American Bulldog = VHT G-100-E Pitbull
Brit Vintage 8 = Celestion Vintage 30 8 Ohm
Brit Vintage 16A / 16B = 2 different Vintage 30 16 Ohm
Brit Anniversary 1 / 2 = 2 Flavors of Celestion G12H Reissue
Brit Silver = Celestion V60
Brit V1 / V2 / V3 = Various flavors of Vintage 30
Brit 100 = Celestion G12K-100
Brit 80 = Celestion Classic Lead (More likely G12-80, thanks to Metrik’s sleuthing)
Brit 75 = Celestion G12T-75
Brit Alnico B = Celestion Blue
Brit Alnico G = Celestion Gold
Brit Alnico S = Celestion Silver Bell
Brit Darkness = Celestion / Mesa Black Shadow
Brit T12G = Another flavor of G12T
Brit Green = Celestion G12M Greenback
CV GT12-16 = Carvin GT12
California Red = JBL D120
EV Darkness = ElectroVoice Black Shadow
HiAmp = Fane Purple Back
Jazz 12 = Roland JC-120 Speaker
Metal V 1200 = Peavey Sheffield Model 1200
Silver Alnico = Whatever was in Silvertone Twin Twelve’s (Fisher maybe?)

1) Why does the same speaker configuration sound dramatically different across cabinets? I thought it would be more subtle.

That's the nature of cabs. Different wood, different coverings, different sizes, different placement of the speaker in back, open back vs closed back, etc...its all a factor. Its perfectly reasonable to me that different speaker cones would make a difference, along with the actual cabinet selection, mic selection, mic placement, etc.. You can also adjusted the cab size slider from 1-200%, which can somehow make the cab behave like its smaller or bigger...and that should effect the sound for sure too.

What is not clear to me, yet, is whether all this stuff in AT4 is accurate or not, or if they started with some base IR's perhaps and then are estimating DSP based on all of those factors.. Certainly it makes a difference when we slide these items around..and we can futz around until we get a sound we like, and ultimately that's probably all that really matters, but I have no idea if all of those factors are realistic and accurate..