TONEX and X-Drive output level variance

[ivaliotes44]

I'm not complaining, just confirming: I got a TONEX and an X-Drive not that long ago. Both pedals sound great. I've noticed that the output levels of both vary spectacularly from model to model, and not just from patch to patch. I didn't give it much thought at first, but it's starting to become inconvenient in terms of switching. Turning the volume to 10 on the Deluxe Reverb patch doesn't get me anywhere near the Orange volume, for instance. Is that intentional, or is there something I should be doing different/a universal setting I can change that can level out those volumes?

Thanks!

[BLuzJW91]

Its probably more related to the way the volumes were set when the amps were captured. You can adjust the parameter MODELVOL in the Tonex to help balance the levels of your captures. I've found that I bring the MODELVOL down on really "hot" captures and increase MODELVOL for the quieter captures. I have developed a good median volume with this method and run my Tonex's main volume (volume knob all the way to the right) around 5 or 6 depending on the board I'm going into.

[ivaliotes44]

For clarity, I never made a capture. I am talking about the captures that were in the unit from the factory. I guess they didn't balance the volumes when they did their captures?

In either case, I will try the MODELVOL approach. Thank you.

[ivaliotes44]

OK, now I am complaining a little bit. The massive jumps and drops in volume from factory capture to factory capture are a real drag from a usability perspective. Having to go through and re-level every single factory capture in order to make switching from one to the other actually function in real time feels like a huge and easily corrected oversight. It's not the end of the world, but it feels careless.

[ivaliotes44]

Ahh, well. It is what it is. I'll take it or leave it. I built a whole IK board, and I'm not jazzed about having to compensate on everything, but it's fine I guess.

[SenecaReader2]

I find that problem with virtually all amp sims and hardware FX. It seems all dumb, but it's not, the problem is that none of the patches were made with the guitar you use, the picking dynamics you use, etc. I saw that convincing explanation in the latest book by craig anderton.

Think about it, IK Multimedia would not be so dumb to make random volume settings with different patches. They can do all this other stuff but can't match the volume of a few patches?

[ivaliotes44]

No, that's exactly what they did, and hardware modelers generally do not have this problem. That's why I noticed.

A hardware modeler's input can be set up to match that of a typical amp. And that's not connected in any way to what I experienced (though there is another IK problem - undergaining of some amp models in Amplitube, with no way to calibrate between them - which has been reported and left unaddressed in other threads.

What I was reporting is equivalent to having a modeler with 50 different models, setting up bare bones patches for each model where the volume and gain controls are all in the same place, and yet having huge volume changes in between patches.

I spent the few hours going in and (mostly - it's not trivial, even with the Model Vol setting) volume correcting for IK. Irritated (and more intrigued by some other options i have), I didn't use that rig for several weeks. I'm just getting around to messing with it again. Maybe I'll end up selling it. We'll see.

[BLuzJW91]

I had the volume balancing issue with the Kemper profiler as well. Although in the profiling aspect Kemper had db meters to set levels, various profiles would have different audible levels. Remember that volume is a perception that is influenced by the EQ of a "tone" as well as power output or dbs.

Its an issue with capturing that seems to have been exacerbated by the initial lack of standard db levels in the various gain stages during Tonex capturing. If you have a standard db setting for the raw guitar signal and a standard db setting for the captured sound, then this can be avoided. However, even IK didn't really "normalize" their captures. Mostly you will find that, on average, clean captures will be lower db than high gain captures.

This is somewhat reflective of a tube amp's property to be clean at low volume and extremely loud when distorting. These variations can be mitigated by adjustment of the mic preamp gain stage. However, I don't recall any standard loudness setting for captures.

For example youtube videos vary because not all creators go with the standard LUFS of 14 to 16 (edit: sorry that's -14 to -16LUFS). However, those that do follow this standard have a consistent level with other creators. I would have liked to have seen IK Multimedia set a standard loudness for the input signal (raw guitar) and for the miked signal. IK's sample guitar riffs for testing captures kind of set an input standard, but not many people paid attention to them. However, even if IK had set a standard, capture creators may or may not have followed it. At least the IK captures would have been normalized.