Syntronik 2 - Zones and Elements ?

[DarkStar]

In the Mod Matrix there are some sources and destination with names prefixed by "Zone" or "Element". And Zone and Element LFOs can be selected in the LFO panels.



-- what are these used for?
-- how are they used?
-- how do they relate to the preset being edited?

No mention in the User Manual.

If I look at this patch in ST4, there seems to be one Element and loads of Zones (30 or so, with single note names). So, in Syn2, is this just debris?

Also, in ST4, which properties can be edited zone by zone? And have you ever bothered with individual Zone editing?

[Steve-xyz]

Excellent questions. Did you ever either get an answer or figure it out?

We do have Element and Zone parameters in several locations in Syntronik 2 and they do seem to work based on a couple of very brief test. We have them in all three bottom panels.

I don't know because I haven't done a deep dive into the SYN2 Synth Engine, but in destinations we have Zones (e.g., Zone > Pitch > Zone Pitch which directs a source to what might be called a global parameter of sound, in this case Pitch) and Elements (e.g., Element > Pitch > Element Formants which directs a source to what might be a sub-parameter of sound).

Also, I am wondering if they vary with the type and number of wave sets in a preset (Single Oscillator, Multi Oscillator, Octaves, Sync, PWM, and Full Patch) and how they correlate with ST4 editing if at all, among other things.

Thanks for raising these question. You have inspired me to take a big step on the path to better understanding and making use of the synth engine. It looks to be a long one with lots of curves, slopes, and detours.

[DarkStar]

No reply from Support and I have not figured it out.

It seems like they could be very useful if I knew what they were for.

------------
PS Isn't "Oscillator" an odd term for a software module that loads a set of audio samples and does not (as far as I know) oscillate anything (other than by DRIFT?)?

[Steve-xyz]

Thanks for the reply. Based on the two tests I did this morning, I agree! Seems to have benefits for those of us into designing our own presets. Not much use for preset users due to the nice job done with the factory presets. Also, too deep for simple preset tweaking. Might be useful for advanced tweaking.

I just decided to go for the 11 new instruments and so far have 2 installed, and 2 downloaded.

It would help me to learn the synth engine to redo the explorations I did this morning and to go another few exploratory steps towards complete understanding. I could keep track of the steps and share them if that would help. Or I could just explore and share findings when I figure out major chunks of how they work.

Re: Oscillators. Based on some hardware synths I have used over the years, I tend to think of them as Layers. But if IK wants to call them Oscillators, I can mentally map the terms. Not a big issue for me.

Also, I think of wave sets as samples and multisamples as they are named in other gear I have used. But wave sets makes sense, too. And one of these days I will understand those, too. Have you figured out that the categories can overlap? A small number of wave sets fit more than one category.

[ttinker]

It's all about as clear as mud... or, as clear as the fuzzy graphics on the top-level interfaces in Syntronik 2!

I am trying to make sense of it all, but it's rather opaque and does seem to be somewhat riddled with possibly deprecated and/or placeholder functionality. My guess is that on some level it all makes sense with regards to all of these things being essentially flavours of SampleTank, but it's also as if someone decided to try very hard to obfuscate functionality behind a haze of unorthodox/redundant terminology.

One hopes this is not the case, but it is hard not to have that impression sometimes. If the stuff didn't *sound* so darn good, it would be be worse (and hard to make a case for using it), but still. If you are going to tease us with a full-blown synth engine using these wonderful samples...

[Steve-xyz]

I am still looking at the IK synth engine(s), and have only started to scratch the surface, not even enough to leave a mark and certainly not enough to draw blood. I spent years doing a deep dive into parts of the synth engine for a family of hardware I have, and it seems that IK's family of synth engines is quite robust.

Based on some exploration today, Zones and Elements now make more sense. Without going into details, mainly because I am just starting to make sense of IK's terminology and "the method to its madness" (so to speak), I did a basic test using ST4 as the editor for a tweaked SYN2 preset. It works. In short, I now have A-0 in one GS-V preset so that several different velocity ranges have different filter settings and therefore sound different.

So thanks again for raising this issue. I enjoy understanding as much as I can about my gear in order to discover and make use of hidden creative potential. Today's test opens up a wide range of new possibilities for me with the IK synth engine(s).

Not sure what percent of IK customers would want to create or tweak presets on such a microscopic level, but (1) it seems to work, (2) its nice that its there for those who want to use it, and (3) its nice that the synth engine works well enough for different levels of consumers, from preset choosers to deep divers.

[DarkStar]

Hmm, I have just had a look at the GS-V "abundance of Harmonics" instrument preset, in ST4

It consists of 1 Element with 1,495 Zones, with 8 or more Zones per note and 2 Oscillators per Zone. That could mean 1,495 x 2 different samples. And maybe each of those 1,495 samples are a Wave Set? (After all, the samples .pak file is 103 MB.)

In ST4, each Zone can have a different Amp Env, Pitch Env, Filter Env, Zone LFOs and Filter! As well as different Oscillator settings. If you edit the Element then the settings in all 1,495 Zones are edited.

In Syn2, as far as I can see, Zones are not individually editable. So I wonder what the target of the Zone LFOs is. They seems to be other zone-related parameters. And, from some brief tests, Zone LFOs affect All Zones in the Element. Element LFOs also affect all Zones in the Element and can also target element-related parameters.

I think that the difference is that Zone LFOs start each time a note is started and Element LFos are free-running (independent of any note start). So if you play 3 notes at slightly different times, then the Element LFOs will run together and the Zone LFOs will start and run separately. But I could be wrong.

[Steve-xyz]

Nice detective work!!! It seems to jive with some of what I noticed. I will make some time to take a closer look based on what you have here. So far what little documentation I found was in the ST4 manual, but I haven't looked to see if the new manual that just came out has additional details. It is on my list to do, though. Thanks for the details here!

[DarkStar]

Remember it is only my conclusions. Support has not yet provide any info about this area.

PS:
In the ST4 Edit page, when you enable the [Zones] button, if you look really hard you can see a dull red bar, just above the virtual keyboard keys, indicating the keys in the zone. I only saw that yesterday

[Steve-xyz]

Different presets I looked at have different zone configurations. Would be nice if there were a manual available to use.