Can not make AT5 stomps / pedals "MIDI Learn" in REAPER

[mdb_ikmm]

Dear All:

My apologies in advance for what is more a REAPER question than an AmpliTube one (I've posted this to the former forum, without much in the way of reply of success).

While admittedly a newbie to REAPER (and to some extent AmpliTube) I have been using these (Windows version) to good effect in conjunction with a Focusrite Scarlett 3rd Gen interface, AmpliTube 5 MAX (among other virtual stomps / effects / amps / etc.) for guitar and bass.

Less related, but still relevant to the question, with a variety of MIDI-based controllers I can play synth and piano parts using virtual instruments as FX within REAPER. So all good there.

However, for the life of me, I can not get the various effects, amp sims, stomps, etc. in AmpliTube 5 (or any other package) to "MIDI Learn" such that I can control them with footswitches or expression pedals, or even keyboard controller / pad presses and the like.

I've read and/or watched a number of tutorials on this sort of thing, but either the author's REAPER is skinned differently such that I can't quite follow with fresh, stock installation of REAPER, or the author's starting point in the demonstration is beyond what I'm able to initially reproduce.

Keeping things relatively simple for starters:

i) I've acquired a Nektar Pacer (much of its functionality is admittedly beyond my ability level right now...) for which, at the moment, I simply want to use switches 1-6 to send on and off messages to some effects stomps in AmpliTube 5 as well as other FX (can list some if there is interest).

ii) Further simplifying things, I also have other, simpler footswitches and expression pedals correctly connected to the PC via MIDI that I'd also like to use, and for that matter can serve to illustrate the problem here.

iii) Using the "Pocket MIDI" testing / monitoring app, I know every single one of my MIDI-based footswitches, keyboards, other controllers etc. are correctly connected to the PC, properly configured, and sending appropriate and discrete messages. So I know the device(s) ---> PC setup part is OK.

iv) Within AmpliTube 5 (called as an FX from REAPER upon opening and arming an audio track from the Focusrite, into which a guitar is plugged in e.g. Input 1) I can control all of the stomps, amps, etc. using footswitches (e.g. for stomps) and expression pedals (e.g. for wah) using the *mouse*. I correctly hear the resultant effect. I take this to mean that AmpliTube 5 is functioning properly, and it and REAPER are playing nice, at least with respect to REAPER and my interface processing the *audio*. PS -- AT5 sounds absolutely fantastic.

v) Further, using REAPER and various MIDI controller devices such as a keyboard controller, and loading (for example) a piano VST in REAPER, I can open a track, arm it, choose a particular MIDI device, load the instrument, and play. I can see the input light up in the REAPER interface upon e.g. keypress on the MIDI controller that I've selected for that track. I take this to mean that REAPER can correctly see my MIDI devices, and thus we are good from the controller/footswitch ---> PC ---> Windows ---> REAPER standpoint.

vi) However, I've been completely unsuccessful at getting AT5 (or any other plugin) to "MIDI Learn". I located a tutorial suggesting that one open and arm a track for MIDI input, (either a MIDI single device or all devices) then route that track into the audio input track from which I call the plugin. I've tried this to the best of my ability. (I am absolutely new to routing, and ignorant how that works, and thus I could be messing this up...) Nothing happens. It is as if AT5 (or any other plugin) does not sense the MIDI message, though within REAPER I can see the lights corresponding to MIDI activity on that MIDI track. Indeed upon attempting "MIDI Learn" for one of the AT5 stomps, the screen waits at "Waiting for MIDI..." despite pressing footswitches or moving expression pedals.

It is as if the MIDI instructions are not being passed through REAPER to AT5 or other plugin.

If someone could point me toward a very basic document or video (ideally one which starts with a completely clean, uncustomized REAPER) or perhaps provide a few very basic, idiot-proof bullet points (like, what to click -- that level of idiot-proof) to enable AmpliTube 5 stomps and pedals "MIDI Learn", I would be forever grateful.

The existing docs and tutorials -- at least the ones I've found to date -- are over my head. I'm really trying to avoid moving to another DAW, as I otherwise like REAPER very much, and have invested the time and licensing expense such that I'd rather not just abandon it. However I'd also welcome any insights as to alternative DAWs that this community have found to "just work" with AT5's MIDI Learn capability no or minimal configuration & headaches.

Again, I realize that this is likely a REAPER (more like REAPER user...) issue, though here's hoping someone on this forum might be familiar with that DAW and with what I am trying to accomplish with AT5.

Thank you very much,
-Michael

[DarkStar]

Yes, it is a Reaper question.

But first, some clarification:
-- do you want to use "MIDI Control" as described in the AT5 User Manual, section 5.2?
-- or Automation, as in 6.1/2?

[DarkStar]

I see that you are pursuing this on the Reaper forum; so I'll pause replying here.

[mdb_ikmm]

Hi DarkStar and All:

DS> But first, some clarification:
-- do you want to use "MIDI Control" as described in the AT5 User Manual, section 5.2?
-- or Automation, as in 6.1/2?


Hi DarkStar, given that the former ("5.2 -- Assigning Controllers" on page 68 of my version of the AT5 User Manual) seems closest to what I'm trying to achieve (and more simple, but would be sufficient for my needs) I'd say that option. However, I'd be happy with anything that gets me to the desired result of being able to control stomps and pedals with MIDI footswitches and expression pedals.

Thanks for noticing the crosspost on the REAPER forum. I'm happy to take this up there. However I'd be open to use of a different DAW that made this easier or for which integration with AT5 is less complicated.

Thank you,
-Michael

[DarkStar]

("5.2 -- Assigning Controllers" on page 68 of my version of the AT5 User Manual) seems closest to what I'm trying to achieve

That's not the direction i deduced from your Reaper thread.

But you will need 2 tracks:
-- set the first to receive MIDI from your MIDI controller
-- set the second to receive audio from your audio interface
-- route the first track to the second, disabling any audio routing
-- insert AmpliTube 5 ("AT5") on the second track
-- for both tracks you may be OK with "Monitoring only" rather than recording.

For the track routing, drag the Routing button on the first track to the second and drop it. While dragging, the mouse point will turn into a small jack plug. In the pop-up change the Audio selection to "None":


You will find more details in the Reaper User Guide.

Check that you can hear your guitar going through AT5 and see the level meters move on the second track and that you can see MIDI activity indicated on both tracks when you adjust the controller knobs / pedals.

Next, do a MIDI assignment as in section 5.2. You can fine tune the Min, MAx and Curve etc later. Now when you adjust / stomp your MIDI controller knob or pedal you should see the parameter move.

----------------------
Just for info:
AT5's "MIDI Control" (as described in chapter 5 of the AT5 User Manual) is similar to Reaper's "MIDI Link". Both assign MIDI CC messages directly to control a plug-in parameter.

[hermybear2002]

Hey Michael,

I don't know if you are getting the PM's I sent as the last one seems to be stuck in my Outbox for the last 20 minutes...

Post here if you didn't get and I'll have to pull another ticket as to why my PM's are not being sent...

[mdb_ikmm]

Hello Hermybear2002:

Indeed received your reply (and a couple of empties) via the messaging mechanism here and am working on those suggestions.

Thanks very much.
-M

[tdwimsatt]

This post helped me enormously! I was able finally navigate through the Reaper manual on linking the MIDI to my guitar track with AT5 running and get control of the VST.

[mdb_ikmm]

Hi Tdwinmsatt:

Would you mind posting what you did to make this work? I've had to put this down for a while due to work-related and other demands, but despite following DarkStar's and Harmybear's suggestions and patient help, I still can not control AT5 and stomps therein using MIDI learn.

Other "standalone", single-effect plugins (such as from BlueCat, etc.) work fine, but I can't seem to get the various effects within the AT5 "container" to respond to a MIDI learn command if I otherwise go through the same motions that have been successful for other single-purpose stomp VSTs from other vendors.

It is quite frustrating. In the next couple of weeks I should have some time to come back to work on this in a serious way.

Thank you all,
-M

[tdwimsatt]

M,

Here is what I did in all the detail I can muster. I totally understand your frustration and I was banging my head on the wall for a few weeks until I finally stumbled on to your post. So, here goes:

Preparation
First, make sure you can control your stand-alone AT5 with your MIDI pedals of choice. I have the Behringer FCB1010 with UnO v.2.0. If you have not gotten that far, let me know and I will point the way. There is another series of posts that finally got me going there, as well.
In Reaper, you can see if the AT5 plugin has the MIDI controls mapped by left clicking on a stomp, click on assign midi > bypass and it will either say Learn... or Delete with the midi cc assignment above. The simple route at this point is to make sure you have the preset with stomps all worked out in the stand-alone AT5. Once you get the other steps done below, you can reprogram stuff to your heart's content but let's take the easy route for now.

Steps to get the MIDI working

1. Create 2 tracks -
   
   • The first track will be your audio (guitar) input
   • The second track will be for the MIDI control
2. Go to Reaper Options > Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices and set AXE I/O in the input and out put boxes.
3. Right click on AXE I/O in the input box and enable both input and input for control
4. Hit Apply and OK.
5. Back on track 1, arm the track for recording. This will display the input controls. Set Input 1 (audio or MIDI) and the IN FX for input 1 from your AXE I/O.
6. Arm Track 2.
7. Set Track 2 to Out: Record: Output > Record: Output (MIDI)
8. Set Track 2 IN FX to: Input: MIDI > AXE I/O > Channel 1
9. In the mixer on the faders, you will see the Route button for each track. Click on the Track 1 Route button.
10. In the Receives section in the lower right, Add a new receive and select Track 2, your MIDI channel.
11. Verify Master Send is checked (default) and click the red 'X' to close the box.
12. On Track 2, click on routes and add a new send and select Track 1.
13. Under MIDI Hardware Output, select the AXE I/O and send to Track 1.
14. Verify the Master Send is checked and close the dialog.

That should get you up and running like I am. Let me know how it goes and if you made any mods to the steps above to help any others.

Tom

[ManicDaze]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for this info, going to try it too to get my Line 6 FBV express MKii working.
You mentioned about the MIDI in the standalone Amplitube. I have tried everything to set this up but get absolutely nothing. I've read the manual and obviously I am missing something.

Would you possibly be able to give a similar walk throught for midi assignement and learn function?

Would be ace if you could help.

Thanks, Tim

[tdwimsatt]

Tim,

I will do my best we might want to connect via Skype or something so I can see what you are doing. The previous series of posts I mention go into the use of a tool that enables a user to assign the midi channels in the firmware of the pedal. Are you able to get that far? It may be a matter of setting the pedal up so that AT5 recognizes it.

Tom
Just2playguitar.com

[ManicDaze]

Hi Tom,

I was over-thinking the whole thing. I have just set it up and all hunky dory! I've not used midi for more than 10 years but was rusty, got it all sorted with the channels etc in the pedal templates.

Thanks for the reply sir!

gr Tim

[JasonFunk]

M,

Steps to get the MIDI working

1. Create 2 tracks -
   
   • The first track will be your audio (guitar) input
   • The second track will be for the MIDI control
2. Go to Reaper Options > Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices and set AXE I/O in the input and out put boxes.
3. Right click on AXE I/O in the input box and enable both input and input for control
4. Hit Apply and OK.
5. Back on track 1, arm the track for recording. This will display the input controls. Set Input 1 (audio or MIDI) and the IN FX for input 1 from your AXE I/O.
6. Arm Track 2.
7. Set Track 2 to Out: Record: Output > Record: Output (MIDI)
8. Set Track 2 IN FX to: Input: MIDI > AXE I/O > Channel 1
9. In the mixer on the faders, you will see the Route button for each track. Click on the Track 1 Route button.
10. In the Receives section in the lower right, Add a new receive and select Track 2, your MIDI channel.
11. Verify Master Send is checked (default) and click the red 'X' to close the box.
12. On Track 2, click on routes and add a new send and select Track 1.
13. Under MIDI Hardware Output, select the AXE I/O and send to Track 1.
14. Verify the Master Send is checked and close the dialog.

Tom

Dude you are a godsend! I've spent days (probably weeks if you include the other random times I've tried) searching Youtube and googling for that concise, easy to follow explanation on how to control the Midi in AT5 in Reaper on the fly. Everything in the videos seems to be about programming set midi changes and not doing it on the fly like a pedal board. This works perfectly! Thank you! Thank you! I would have thought there would be more easily accessible info on this, but it took me forever to find this. You are awesome. Your post should be included in IK Multimedia and Reaper's user manuals!

[mdb_ikmm]

Hello All:

I am the OP of this thread (from way back in January of 2021, which gives an idea of how long I and others have been fighting with this).

Thanks very much tdwimsatt for the HOWTO. I can't wait to try this and will report back as soon as I have the opportunity to do so this weekend.

Hi JasonFunk, it's great to hear an independent report of tdwimsatt's method working. I'm amped -- pardon the pun.

Thanks also go to hermybear2002, DarkStar, and ManicDaze for your input into this thread and helping to get ideas and thoughts kicked about. This (if successful!) really shows off the value of this collaborative resource and sounding board of a forum.

Thank you all -- will report back ASAP,

-Michael