Looking for a Fleetwood Mac bass sound

[Damagical]

Can anyone share a good preset for a McVie type bass sound?

[carlaz]

Well, currently, McVie is an offiical Orange artist, and is using stuff like the AD 200 (a model of which is available from AmpliTube). For current gear, see further https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/.

Back in the day? I confess that I don't know the specifics but I would bet (at least a small amount of money) that at least some his bass parts on records were recorded as DI. Likewise, I would guess Ampegs for live use -- so Amplitube's SVX-VR model might be a good starting point. It is always possible that amps and DI were blended in the studio, too.

I realize that this is not very specific (or probably very helpful), but perhaps it is a start!

[Damagical]

Thankyou.. it gives me a good starting point

[Peter_IK]

I also don't know the specifics but by my ear I'd say the Orange is a "newer" part of his sound and the Ampeg-based models will likely get you there for the classic FM bass sound, probably with some DI mixed in (at least how my ears hear it). Seems that's a pretty staple 70s method (DI + Ampeg blended together) anyway, so you'll be in the right ballpark.

[DarkStar]

^^^^
https://orangeamps.com/artist/john-mcvie-of-fleetwood-mac-2/

And, from the Ampeg site (dated 2009):

He is more than happy with his Ampeg rig, which features a full complement of custom Ampeg cabinets and two SVT-4PROs.

[carlaz]

And the Amplitube SVX-PRO is the "based on Ampeg SVT-4PRO" gear model, so that's available. However, although I am not sure of the exact history of the various SVT models, I think the SVT-II was released in the '80s or '90s, which suggests the SVT4-PRO must be even more recent. So, much like the current Orange gear, I would suspect the SVT4-PRO was essentially McVie's then-current touring gear (rather than something used on the classic '70s recordings or tours).

I found this piece https://www.soundonsound.com/people/fleetwood-mac-go-your-own-way on the making of the Rumours album which includes the following note:

The bass, meanwhile, went through a Fat Box DI. "I used to love that sound," says [producer/engineer Ken] Caillat. "I didn't think you could get any better than that. The amp got in the way most of the time, but still, we'd record the bass on two tracks — direct and amp, probably mic'd with something like a 414 — and many times we then erased the amp when we needed another track.

The same piece doesn't say what the amp actually was, but -- although Ampeg is often a good guess for the '70s (often a B-15 if not an SVT) -- I actually found this page http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=55409 which suggests McVie used Acoustic amps from c. 1972 to 1976/7. Here's a picture with what appear to be (slightly blurry) Acoustic-style controls on the head visible beneath the bass headstock:
More discussion of McVie's use of Acoustic amps here: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=12451

Amplitube does have an older model of the Acoustic 360 bass preamp (also famously used by John Paul Jones up to about 1975): the 360Bass Preamp. It's actually really cool, IMO, and I wouldn't mind seeing an upgraded version of it. Acoustic bass rigs were very prevalent in, especially, the early '70s, but seem to have eventually become overshadowed by Ampeg. I've often thought Amplitube's 360Bass Preamp model has not gotten the love it deserves (though I'm certainly guilty of unfairly ignoring it myself!).

Finally, the "414" mentioned in the Sound on Sound quote is presumably an AKG C-414, modeled in Amplitube as the Condenser 414.

But it doesn't sound like a lot of amped bass made it onto Rumours!

[carlaz]

So, in conclusion ....

For an early/mid-'70s McVie live, amped tone, I think I would go with the Amplitube 360Bass Preamp into a 1x18 Horn Bass cab (based on the Acoustic 301 cab, which was the matching cab for the 360 head; the combo of head + cab was then often referred to as the "361"), mic'd with a Condenser 414.

But, that said, I think much of the studio-recorded bass tone was probably DI -- in which case, all bets are off!

[Peter_IK]

Agreed. That's a good catch with the Acoustic amp. Though I do agree that mostly DI would probably get anybody there and I'm not against AD200 being added into the mix - even Geddy migrated to that for live tones later in Rush's career.

[carlaz]

The AD200 is cool, though I often put it in a parallel signal path set up with a guitar amp, letting the AD200 handle the fat low end, while the amp provides a bit of grit. With all the new path and rack options in AmpliTube 5, it looks like there will be many more options for playing with this kind of setup on bass -- so I'm looking forward to that.

As for the "Fat Box" DI mentioned in the Sound on Sound article, some further Googling suggests it was an early active DI made by a tech/engineer called Larry Comara. The electronics were all aggressively potted, so people have not had much luck figuring out exactly what the components were -- but they do not seem to have been enormously complicated pieces of gear. An active DI is basically a little pre-amp.

In AmpliTube 5, you could just use a DI signal but slap in some of the new "based on T-RackS 5" rack gear that model various EQs/preamps and just try driving any of those in hopes of finding a tone you like.

[Peter_IK]

Good point about the DI in AmpliTube 5. Can't wait!

Also, I prefer the AD200 for more grit than clean in most cases.

[Damagical]

I'm very appreciative for all the advice. Thankyou all!

[supanorton]

The AD200 is cool, though I often put it in a parallel signal path set up with a guitar amp, letting the AD200 handle the fat low end, while the amp provides a bit of grit. With all the new path and rack options in AmpliTube 5, it looks like there will be many more options for playing with this kind of setup on bass -- so I'm looking forward to that.

As for the "Fat Box" DI mentioned in the Sound on Sound article, some further Googling suggests it was an early active DI made by a tech/engineer called Larry Comara. The electronics were all aggressively potted, so people have not had much luck figuring out exactly what the components were -- but they do not seem to have been enormously complicated pieces of gear. An active DI is basically a little pre-amp.

In AmpliTube 5, you could just use a DI signal but slap in some of the new "based on T-RackS 5" rack gear that model various EQs/preamps and just try driving any of those in hopes of finding a tone you like.

Great idea! Thank you so much, carlaz! I’m actually waiting until Tuesday to rework a bass part for a ballad I’m working on. The DI and rack gear sounds like a very interesting place to start! I’m also waiting until Tuesday because it’s really hard to play with my fingers crossed.

[carlaz]

Yeah, once I realized that some of my favorite '70s bass tones were DI, I started messing around more with just doing things like running the DI signal through emulations of vintage preamps, compressors, and/or tape. That often provides a usable amount of saturation -- and some EQ/preamp units have gain controls that you can crank up to get fairly impressive amounts of distortion. (After all, the crazily distorted guitar tone on the Beatles' "Revolution" was achieved by running DI guitar into two violently overloaded console preamps in series. )

But a lot of recorded bass uses a split signal: first, clean but supercompressed DI for the low-end (say, 200/250 Hz on down pretty much smashed all flat and even; everything above rolled off); and then, second, whatever kind of saturation/distortion/overdrive you fancy (bass amps, guitar amps, whatever) for the higher end (with all the low end rolled off, though how much mids get left in can depend on the genre and the bass tone one is aiming for; modern rock/metal tends to scoop bass heavily, while other genres and classic bass tones have more in at least the 700-800 Hz area). It was difficult to do this in AT4, since the older EQ rack units were (IMO) a bit limited what they could do -- so I've generally done it in my DAW -- but it might be a little easier in AT5, with the improved routing and rack gear options.

[supanorton]

Exciting times! I’m so excited about this.

[garfy]

(After all, the crazily distorted guitar tone on the Beatles' "Revolution" was achieved by running DI guitar into two violently overloaded console preamps in series. )

I would love to have seen the looks on the faces of the EMI engineers when they did this.