Hammond B3-X, clicking/abrupt note activation

[danwat1234]

I don't know quite how to put in words. I press a key and initial sound is louder like it is clicking/popping on. I've never used an actual organ but i very much doubt it should sound like this. It is more apparent on lower octaves. It is probably a setting i am overlooking however settings are stock. I have the Dolby software on my laptop on defaults it looks like. Volume leveling and virtual surround effects are off. Audio to laptop speakers and thru keyboard speakers, same.
video; https://photos.app.goo.gl/RNdaZFmvFLiirjXJ7

I have a feeling this is something very simple.

[garfy]

Hi danwat1234

I think what you are referring to is Key Click. Originally it was seen as a design fault on the physical Hammond organs, but certain players liked it as it added an extra rhythmic quality to their playing and so it has been (mostly) incorporated in all software clones of the instrument.

If you really don't like it, click 'Advanced' at the bottom of the main page and you'll see controls that can reduce the volume of the key click (all the way to zero) for note on and off separately. Also, see the User Guide page 43.

Hope that helps.

[danwat1234]

That's maybe it. But it sounds like it's more prevalent in the lower notes, and why do I hear it on the bass pedals too? I'm telling you, it is not realistic. I don't know the true noise of the Organ but my intuition tells me this. The keys shouldn't click with a volume like a mechanical keyboard that came with a 486 computer.
It sounds like the 'click' sound is generated/derived from the note itself, not a key sound.

I'll check that setting tonight.
Thank you

[garfy]

The key click sound wasn't derived from the key itself, but is an electrical click from the contacts under the keys when firing different tonewheels at different times. It is akin (although not the same noise) as editing a digital waveform on anything other than zero-crossing.

Excerpted from the OriginalHammondLeslieFaq.
http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/KeyClick

"The sound produced by early HammondOrgans differed from pipe organs in one characteristic way. There was an attack transient that sounded like a click or pop when a key was pressed. This was considered a defect and was caused by the audio signal being routed directly through the key contacts. As a key was depressed, the nine contacts under the key closed against their respective busbars at slightly different times and bounced as they closed. The sine waves from the constantly running generators would be connected at random points in their oscillation.

Considerable design efforts were made to reduce it but it could never be eliminated. In the patent, key click was to be removed by a bypass. In later console organs like the B3, the higher harmonics were pre-emphasized and the preamp designed with an upper frequency roll-off to help conceal the click.

Later rock and blues players found the key click characteristic to be desireable and some jazz organists consider it to be essential. Many Hammond organ simulators include a key click control to reproduce this characteristic."

[danwat1234]

Very interesting, thank u. I still maintain it's not realistic in my novice opinion. Edit: Could convince me by showing me a video of someone playing a Hammond that actually sounds like this.

[garfy]

Tricky to find video where they are recorded well enough and are not being stomped on by a band, but this one is fairly obvious...



And Billy Preston just deserves to be listened too. Key click more noticeable on his upper manual in the lower octave between 10 and 50 secs.

[danwat1234]

I can hear it in those videos. Sounds like it may be just that default intensity is set way too high. I'll check out the settings later. I never noticed that sound in Cherry Wainer music. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 32wkVbb56l

[garfy]

Sounds like it may be just that default intensity is set way too high. I'll check out the settings later.

It could be, especially if you're listening to the B3-X in isolation. Put it in a mix with some other percussive sounds playing on the same accent and I bet you won't hear it with the same clarity.

I never noticed that sound in Cherry Wainer music.

The mix for "Oh Wait For It Baby" leaves the Hammond quite buried (1950s though, different times) and she's often holding the same chord for 2 or 4 bars while she's singing, so not a lot of keys being changed. Get to the middle eight where she lays into the keys a bit more and you then have the 4 sax players stomping all over the attack of the keys with their 'chiff.'

[danwat1234]

Yes but that playlist has 99 videos in it, many with just her and her husband the drummer. For instance the organ is dominant here. Never noticed contact clicking in her music. https://youtu.be/fjPKPc5LPF8

[garfy]

Granted, but that recording is 55 years old in a live TV studio. Nuance of instruments was not captured so well back then and all mixed live to mono for broadcast purposes.

[danwat1234]

Thanks for the help. I set Click On to about 3.1, Off to 2.5. Sounds about right for my liking.
However, is it realistic for the clicking effect to be more audible on lower notes than higher? Near the top it is almost nonexistant unless i really turn up Click. Should it not be more consistent across the range?
I am using a Yamaha DGX-650 portable grand keyboard, so it has more sensors than something more basic. I just noticed that if i engage softly, sometimes the click does not occur but if i engage normally it always occurs. Note plays just before key is fully depressed. So the emulator is monitoring key position (edit; therefore velocity)? Would be neat if it would fully emulate the engaging of the nine contacts then. Very interesting stuff.


https://youtu.be/ET5v-xy7rwg?t=130

[garfy]

Thanks for the help. I set Click On to about 3.1, Off to 2.5. Sounds about right for my liking.

Great, glad you've found a setting you like.

However, is it realistic for the clicking effect to be more audible on lower notes than higher? Near the top it is almost nonexistant unless i really turn up Click. Should it not be more consistent across the range?

I'd hazard a guess at frequency masking for this one. As the higher notes will be in the same frequency range, they will mask the sound of the click. The lower the pitch the further away from the frequency of the click you go and so they become more noticeable. As this is an electrical noise caused by the circuit opening/closing I would think that the level of the sound would be identical across the keyboard.

[danwat1234]

I agree it is probably frequency masking and the same for the real organ.
Discovered my keyboard does show force / velocity not just key on key off data, and so the B3-X emulator is using the force data in some way when it comes to key click.. I'd assume the real organ it would not matter if the key is engaged softly or quickly.