Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

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Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:15 pm

I've posted here before, and asked IK support about how to do this properly but learned nothing. I've made a little video to show the problems I'm having so maybe someone who understands it could explain, or show me where to look?

https://youtu.be/VrOQ6vNfjY0
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby Promidi » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:23 am

I opened up MP2 and loaded a violin solo patch similar to yours.

What I tried is used Legato 1.

I set to curve to somewhere between 0.7 and 1. This controls the linearity of the change. So 1 would be a linear change.

The Portamento value controls the time it takes to slide from one note to another.

You noted in the video that the vibrato rate changes when the note slides to a different note. The samples have the vibrato baked into the sample rather than applied as an effect. Because the same sample is being used (and the vibrato is baked in) for the single slide duration the vibrato will change its rate as the sample changes its playback rate. (Sort of like spinning an old LP record a bit faster - it also speeds up the vibrato)

You might be better off using a violin that does not have vibrato baked in and then modulate the pitch to get the vibrato. That way you have full control of the the intensity of the vibrato. I would assign the modulation wheel to the LFO level. You could possibly achieve glides using pitch bend rather than portamento. Of course, you can adjust the pitch bend range and assign it to a MIDI controller so you can programmatically change that in your sequence.

If I needed a violin to slide, I would consider using an actual violin glissando patch for a more natural sounding slide. I am not a violin player, but I think a violin slide is doing more than a mere pitch shift. There would be AmpliTube (and maybe slight timbre) changes as well.
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:27 am

Thanks, Promidi

This is the first genuinely helpful information I've seen on the question. The IK support team basically said 'we can't tell you how to use the software, just experiment' and 'read the manual' which tells you nothing.

Do you happen to know if vibrato is integrated into all the violin samples in MP2 or just the solo violin?

I can see I need to learn a bit more about MIDI to do this properly as I've never really tried MIDI controllers or LFO controllers.

Thanks very much for replying!

Norman
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby Promidi » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:48 am

I had a look and , within MP2, I searched for all sounds with the phrase "No Vib". This will narrow the list to only those Sounds without baked in vibrato. The solo strings appear to all have baked in Vibrato. Some of the ensemble strings do not.

Perhaps use one of these ensemble strings and apply an LFO in their respective edit screens.

I gave this a try here.

For example, I opened up "11 Violins No Vib" and set the following in the LFO section on this instrument's edit screen:

Rate 6.1hz
Depth 38
Pitch 0.5
Filter 2.0 (To hear this, you need to set the freq of the filter lower than the default)
Level 5.5

The mod wheel (or CC1) is mapped to the LFO (Well, it was on mine) so to hear any modulation, you have to send CC1 events greater than 0

This way gives you complete control of the vibrato and tremolo. Of course, the tremolo and filter modulation is optional.

To do the slide, perhaps use pitch bend instead of the legatos. On that same edit screen, at the top, in the Sample section, look for "Bend" The governs the range of the bend. Increase this if necessary. The default range is 2 semitones. Therefore, by default, you actually have a total of a 4 semitones range available.

One other suggestion is that when a glide is actually taking place, zero the modulation - and perhaps lower the level slightly and maybe even filter frequency. Once the glide has completed, ease these values to normal. I would ease in the modulation intensity rather than change it abruptly.

I hope with a little experimentation, this gives you a starting point for some things to try.
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:00 pm

Thanks. I've done a bit of experimentation with both of your suggestions.

At first I stayed with the Legato voices and played around with Portamento (P) and Curve (C)
1st phrase was just an upward arpeggio C E G

With no overlaps, sounds OK

Add overlap between C and E, and between E and G

Legato 1 Portamento 1, Curve 1: slides up from C to nearly G as one 'note' then cuts out
Legato 2, same P and C settings, slides from C to E, then E to G then cuts out

Reduce P to 592m
Legato 1 now sounds like Legato 2 did above. Legato 2 sounds almost acceptable but still cuts out during note 3
Reduce P to 349m. No difference
Reduce P to 118m
Both Legatos sound identical - reasonable slide from C to E and E to G but cuts out halfway through G

Added overlap to second phrase, C D E F - slide sounds awful

Reduce P to 33m - sounds better but last note still cuts out halfway.

Legato 1 with P at 38m and C at 0.7 sounds reasonable.

What I've learned : In C E G, the top G only sounds its full length if (a) there's no overlap and no portamento or (b) change voice from Legato 1 or 2 to Mono so no portametno. Any P or C makes you lose half of the length of the last note.

I then looked at your second suggestion, the LFO settings. I don't have any '11 Violins' or any marked No Vib but I have a '14 violins sustain nv d LP' - no idea what most of it means but I'm guessing 'nv' means no vibrato. I can't hear any vibrato.

I changed the settings as best I could to yours - couldn't get them exactly as you can only play the dials, not type in a value. Screenshot attached.

I couldn't hear any difference when I used the Mod wheel - I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hear. So it may not be mapped right. It moves on the Miroslav UI but I don't know if it's doing anything.

Your second message really tells me I need to learn more about MIDI, in particular CC messages and LFO values, as I have no knowledge or understanding at all. I can see now that I need it in order to discuss this stuff intelligently. So I'll go and do that.

I'll come back to this when I can grasp the language a bit better. I really appreciate you taking the trouble to help with this - thanks!

Image
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby Promidi » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:32 pm

It's possible that the patch I referred to is only available in the Philharmonik 2, not Philharmonik 2 CE

I notice on your screenshot, your LFO pitch (3rd from the right) is set to zero. If that's how it was set when you moved the MOD wheel, that's why you're not noticing anything. Bump it up to 0.5 and that might make a difference. You should hear vibrato in the violin.

Might be worth upgrading to Philharmonik 2. Keep an eye on specials....
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:23 pm

Hi

No change to the LFO pitch dial seems to give me any difference when I use the MOD wheel.

Here's the entire Edit panel in case that tells you anything.
Image
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:27 pm

I just noticed this instance didn't have the adjustments to Rate, Depth etc that you'd recommended before. I applied those and ... the vibrato is there but constant, the MOD wheel doesn't have any effect on it.
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby Promidi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:15 pm

I tried that exact patch that you are using (14 Violins Sustain nv d LP) , and, by default, the mod wheel indeed does not affect the LFO depth.

However, you can use the "learn" function to create a mapping.

1. Press Learn (Bottom left)
2. Press the LFO depth Control
3. Move your mod wheel

If done correctly, a little "1" will flash momentarily in a small black rectangle above the LFO depth Control. It may not be a 1 but some other number. However, the mapping will still be created.

Once the black rectangle has disappeared, moving the mod wheel should visibly activate the LFO depth Control.

I tested this procedure here and this worked.

Note: The interface is the same between Philharmonik 2 CE and Philharmonik 2. The only difference is the sound content.
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Re: Portamento in Philharmonik 2 CE

Postby normanlamont » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm

Yes that works. I have so much to learn!
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