Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Discussions about MODO DRUM physically modeled drums and MODO BASS - the first physically modeled electric bass virtual instrument

Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:47 pm

I can export the MIDI file and post it to a web server for download. I'll do that this evening and post the link back to here. I'll also include any details regarding the bass patch that I'm using in MODO Bass.

I also just heard back from IK support. They sent me an MP3 file of them playing my bass track on their system to confirm if the issue was present. It was based on what I hear in the MP3 they sent, so now on to more troubleshooting and trying some of their suggestions.

Thanks for your offer to assist in troubleshooting. I'll post the MIDI tonight.
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby DarkStar » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:42 pm

Did the MP3 from Support have the wrong notes played in it?

Also, if you have another DAW you could try playing that MID file in there too.
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:18 pm

Yes, the MP3 that IK Support generated appeared to have the same issue that I'm experiencing. It's an eight bar pattern that changes chords (and the associated bass root notes) every two bars, with a progression of D-A-Em-G. The bass is using a drop D tuning. The line plays fine through most of the song, but when it hits the final iterations of the chorus at the end, it suddenly switches to playing all open low D notes, so instead of a progression of D-A-Em-G, I get a base line of D-D-D-D.

This is especially odd because the MIDI parts were simply cut and pasted to this section of the track, and they play correctly earlier in the track.

I do have a bridge section just before the final choruses that has some slides in it, so my presumption originally was that there must be some errant pitch wheel data from the slides, but I've confirmed that all of the slides in the bridge do return the pitch wheel data to a value of 0, so I don't know what could be done differently there.
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby DarkStar » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:01 pm

That's good! :) That means that Support can use your project file and MIDI to investigate exactly what s going on.
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:23 am

I have resolved this issue through my own experimentation/trial and error tonight. Thank you for the offer of assistance, DarkStar.

For anyone that is experiencing this issue where MODO Bass begins playing only open string notes, here is a hint that may help. If you've programmed any slides using pitch wheel/pitch bend control, be sure that any subsequent MIDI parts explicitly start with a pitch bend value of "0". Otherwise, if your previous MIDI part ended on a slide down, MODO Bass will treat any following MIDI notes as being at the last pitch bend value. Basically, MODO Bass correctly models the fact that you can't play a note on any given string lower than the open string, and if you don't return the pitch bend to "0", any notes you play are going to be potentially lower than the open string note (because the pitch bend is in the bent down position), so MODO Bass just plays the open string note for every note, unless the note is high enough that it is higher than even the bent down open string note. I know this is confusing and I'm probably not explaining it well, but the bottom line is make sure you always return your pitch bend controller value to 0 before playing any subsequent notes, or at the start of a subsequent MIDI part in your sequencer.

OK, I said earlier that I'd eat my words if a solution for this issue was actually available. So here I am taking a big mouthful of my earlier words. I'll go ahead and say it. MODO Bass works correctly, you just need to be very careful with your controller values when creating parts for it.

Hope this helps somebody that runs into the same problem. If anyone has questions on the above, feel free to reply and I will try to help explain better.

[mod redacted: unnecessary]
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby DarkStar » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:33 am

Great diagnosis, well done. :) I'm glad you found the cause and can resolve the problem that you ran into.

Please pass your findings on to Support and urge them to add a big note to the User Manual so that others do not run into the same issue. Although MODOBass was performing "correctly" (i.e in accordance with the MIDI received), users needs to be aware of such behaviour.

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I wonder if this solves the other poster's problem
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:39 pm

This issue that I was facing does sound like the same issue that simiejh (the previous poster) is facing. Hopefully what I've found and described above will lead him/her to a similar outcome.
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby dlgebert » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:14 pm

I'm glad you discovered what the issue was. :)

I actually had this issue quite a bit with all of my plugins when I was using Reaper. Too bad I didn't think of that. It was one of the reasons I stopped using Reaper...

Studio One has the best MIDI handling and editing out of all the DAWs I've used over the years and I don't have that issue with Studio One, which was created by ex-Steinberg programmers before being sold to Presonus.

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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:23 pm

I was going to say, Cubase has historically been considered the MIDI sequencing standard. Cubase was the original MIDI sequencer program from back in the eighties. I don't necessarily consider this a fault of the sequencer. It's just something that needs to be kept in mind when using MIDI controllers in a track. Once you start using them in the track, you have to manage their values carefully from that point forward to get predictable results.

I informed IK Support of the solution to the issue and suggested that they add a sticky post about it to the forum and update the manual with this info.

I'm very excited to be able to finish the track now that this issue has been resolved, as is my singer. The bass does sound great. I guess now I have no excuse not to get MODO Drum, as well!
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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby dlgebert » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:39 pm

heathweber wrote:Cubase was the original MIDI sequencer program from back in the eighties.


I started using Cakewalk Pro Audio back in 1995 and used it for about 20 years. I think the problem with Reaper was, at least when I was using it was that it quantized the pitchwheel data as well as the note data, so it threw away most of the nuances of the data stream a pitchwheel can generate. That also opened it up to throwing away the return to zero when you let go of the pitchwheel and throwing the pitch off for the rest of the notes afterwards.

The cool thing about Studio One is they capture all controller data, including pitchwheel data, not as MIDI values, but as automation data and the data is mapped out in the editor using spline lines where you can add data points, delete data points, modify the curves by adjusting the data points, etc., instead of trying to manually modify limited pitchwheel MIDI values (-8192 to +8191).

Since Studio One is Cubase's little brother, does Cubase handle pitchwheel and controller data in the same way?

BTW, MODO Drum is great, I've been using it since it came out... Before MODO BASS came out I used a plugin that sounds like billion and after MODO Drum came out I stopped using a plugin that sounds like breezy bummer... :D

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Re: Problem with MODOBASS sticking to open strings

Postby heathweber » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:29 pm

I programmed my slides for MODO Bass using an automation lane, automating the pitch wheel data. I was able to draw in the data using data points and line tools. Pretty straightforward, but you have to make sure that you are managing the return to 0, which would be done automatically if I played the part in real-time using my MIDI keyboard controller and it's pitch wheel.

I'm currently using a plugin that sounds like posterior bummer for drums, big brother to Breezy Bummer. MODO Drum is looking amazing, though. I had been using some of the (sounds like) Barbie bass libraries and VMs before MODO Bass. I'm not opposed to still using those plugins if they fit what I need for the given project. But the MODO stuff really is pretty comprehensive and flexible.
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