Amplitube 4 and Line6 UX1: Disappointing tones...

[achimwalter]

Hi everybody,

I am using Amplitube 4 in standalone mode via an UX1 interface from line6.
The driver i am using is ASIO UX1, sometimes also ASIO4all. Even in the highest quality settings the CPU usage is quite low. I am also using quite good 50 Watts active speakers.
So far so good... The problem is that the tones i am achieving are really not satisfactory.
They sound thin, artificial, unspecific and with some kind of "mini echo" (latency?).
Any ideas what the problem may be?
Not to be misunderstood: The tones sound okay - it is a "proper" guitar sound. So there is no fundamental issue. But the tones i am achivieng are disappointing and far from these i can watch on YouTube (for example Greg Koch testing Fender2 - these tones are f*** great and sound like the real thing!).

Do i need a better interface? Is there a fundamental mistake in the settings of my UX 1 (current setting: buffer size 192 samples, sample rate 44.1 Hz)?

Any help is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[FrThib]

The interface is most likely not the culprit, just be sure not to clip the input

I would consider Amplitube as a single part of a whole chain used to produce a great guitar sound, as you would in a "real" studio.

Amplitube, as the small mixer in the cab section suggest, hints that the sound will be very similar to what you would get if you stuck a mic in front of a cab and capture the sound with a transparent small colorless 2 channel mixer.. It's what I have at home, I did even compare the e609 mic recording a jet city 20h through a 1x12 with a v30.. I have all the gear in real life, and it's very very similar to what I obtained with the virtual (identical) gear, so the "problem" is what follows the recording.

ex :

guitar tracks
amplitube (with great pedals and I'm not sure I would mess with the PEQ, do that elsewhere)
reverb (t-rack) ->
tape delay (t-rack),

guitar bus
peq-1a
EQual (or an eq to cut some precise frequencies)
a console strip (t-rack)
tape machine

mastering
mastering eq (lursen),
others (?)

[achimwalter]

Hi Francois,
merci for the quick response.
Thats true - Amplitube should be considered as just one part in the whole chain. So i really should give plug ins like t-rack and certain eqs a try (i have it available as a goodie in the amplitube package but never used it).
But from this there are some additional questions:
- So you think there is nothing elementary wrong with my interface as well as the settings (input is not clipped)?
- However one of the most important elements in the signal chain should be the amp simulation - and i am not satisfied with it (btw the same for scuffham s-gear - should be an excellent simulation, but in my case it sounds flat, tiny and quite artificial)
- as far as i know plug ins like t-racks can only be used in a DAW or is there any posiblity to use it in stand alone mode (i am not a recording guitarist, just noodling/jamming alone to certain backing tracks or youtube vids)

Thanks a lot and kind regards,

Achim

[FrThib]

You can stay "in amplitube" to approximate a real recording chain if you need to..

I would raise the room mic quite a bit, it will give the sound a real nice ambiance/reveb...

Mic selection will be very important, have you tried condenser mics? I suspect you like clean(ish) tones. I would use u87, r121, tlm107.. You could also try a warm dynamic, the 441 is really special (rolled off highs)

try other room. the stage and isolation are interesting.

change cabs, or speakers. find out what speaker you like or how what you like was recorded. some speakers don't go well at all with some amps. some cabs are so-so, as in real life.

you could create a very nice stereo effect by using two amps and two cabs at the same time (change path on the upper left numbers) by panning them hard left and right

have you tried a compressor pedal before the amp? it helps
a compressor after the amps helps also (the tube compressor is good)

the parametric EQ will be important, I find that raising the lows (sharp Q, +- 80hz) and highs (low Q, very high frequency 20khz) helps a lot.

Find annoying frequencies and nuke them with a separate paraEQ dedicated to that task. 4khz, 6khz are often guilty. narrow Q

don't use too much distortion. if you use distortion, use an overdrive before the amp instead of maxing the amp distortion... multiple low clipping is often better than a single raging distortion point

don't use too extreme amp settings. in real life, some amps sounds like crap when the master is maxed. did you try to use the virtual amp as you would in real life?

anyway.. good luck. it's a very fun research..
you will learn a lot

ps : but I would STRONGLY suggest to use amplitube inside of a DAW. It offers so much more possibilities. It opens T-Racks, who is a very important tool. Look after Reaper if you don't know it. It's very simple and quick. You can save a template project to play "live" to youtube

[FrThib]

.. and the mini "echo" you are talking about may be the room reflections, in amplitube.. try muting the room mic in the cab section with the mixer to see if it dissapear.

the cab section can be bypassed too, too, if you want to use amplitube solely as an dedicated amp simulator. once you're in a DAW it opens up a LOT of possibilities

[achimwalter]

Thanks a lot, Francois - really really great help!
Some information is new (using parametric eqs with amplitube - until now i have used them only in the analog world… ), some confirm my experiences (e.g. using the tube compressor as a rack module for longer sustain and the great additional "pling" with clean tones).
However this whole thing sounds like a long and creative weekend...
I also will test reaper - some time ago i tried Ableton live and got totally lost (too many knobs…)
Lets keep in touch and again: Thanks a lot for your support!

[achimwalter]

Never realised that there is a slider for the room mics in the cab mixer section. Thanks for that hint . The slider was on "full throttle". Turning it down resulted in a much more precise and tight tone. And that annoying mini echo is gone...
Again thanks a lot!

[achimwalter]

Hi Francois,

in the meantime i am a little step ahead. I still do not know how to record properly with REAPER but i am (mis)using it as some kind of platform for my tones. I am saving certain amp and rack settings as projects in the DAW and load these tones for my noodling and lessons.
And after purchasing t racks (as suggested by you) my amplitube tones are simply BIG and very authentic.
So thanks again for your great advice .

[FrThib]

Happy to be of any help..

In reaper, there is many way to can create mixbus, the simpler one is to create a new track (double click where there is nothing), then drag your "recording guitar" track to that new track, you will see indent a little, under the new track. This means all the signal will go through the effects of the "parent" track.

You could place your higher cpu usage plugins there, such as tape machines, bus compressors, eq's and some reverbs.

one neat "trick" also is to create a new track and place it -under- your track with amplitube and arm it to record (disarm the track with amplitube but keep the monitoring on). once you record something you wish to keep, just drag the wav file (up) to the track with amplitube. it will then be "saved" and you will be able to easily punch in/out parts without erasing the original track. just be aware that the signal wlll be played with the original signal, you will need to cut parts to blend them.

S (key) is to cut. alt-g allow you to go in and out of the time grid. so, if you want to cut something a little before the beat, alt-g, click on where you want to cut (mouse wheel to zoom in and out), cut at the beginning and end, delete. alt-g to go back to grid.

there is a wonderfull playing speed slider you can slow down any sound source, while keeping pitch, near where the metronome is. just right click on it and select "preserve pitch". you can even record something too difficult at, let's say, 75% speed and listen to it back at 100%.

you can also save fx chains, it will remember all the vst and their parameters you used on a specific track. just click on the fx button of the track you want to export, go to file (I think?), then "save fx chain"

[achimwalter]

That will be a long journey....
Thanks again.
Maybe one more question to the expert.
As posted at the very start i am using an ux 1 interface from line6.
I am achieving quite good latency rates about 5.1 ms at cd quality. However the interface is about 14 years old and there are only two knobs for mic and instrument volume...
At the moment i am thinking about purchasing a new one - maybe a simple 2 channel focusrite or something.
However the results i am achieving with my reliable ux1 are okay and digital should be digital (no differences in tone quality from interface to interface i think).
What do you suggest: Purchase a new one or not?
Thanks in advance!

[FrThib]

As you say, digital is digital, up to a certain point.

if you want more tone options, I would go with a Axe I/O since there is a choice of preamps (pure of Jfet) and the Z-tone control is really intriguing. And it's dedicated to guitars. There is also a passthrough to send the clean signal to a real amp. I like that option