Amplitube 5 Power Modelling - More information?

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One of the new features for AT5 was touted as “ superior power amp - speaker interaction to maximize their realism and feel.”

But it’s impossible to find any information on what this means. Can we have a deeper explanation from IK on what was done and how we can best take advantage of this?

I still believe there are some areas to improve on this and I’d like to have a better understanding of how the power amps and cabinet interactions behave in Amplitube.

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“ Remastered classic gear
AmpliTube 5 also revisits all the original AmpliTube legacy gear, adding not only a fresh new look, but optimized internal gain structure and superior power amp - speaker interaction to maximize their realism and feel.”

Please can we have more specific information about this?

[SenecaReader2]

This is a VERY long subject.... I have been obsessed with power amp distortion in tube amps for many years. Tried every crazy things imaginable. I am not a tech, yet I learned to even replace output transformers in tube amps, bias them, mod them (within reason). All I can tell you is this: power amp distortion in tube amps is overrated. This worked well back in the 1970's when cranking the amp was the only way to get them to overdrive. Now it's a bit different. What happens in a all tube amp is that when you turn up the master volume, the power amp will start to compress. This is the section after the preamp, which includes the driver section a.k.a. phase splitter (the one 12 ax7 that looks like part of the preamp, but it's not, and has more distance from the preamp tubes ) and the power tubes, along the output transformer.

In a nutshell: the power amp starts compressing, and the treble and lows start to roll off, pushing out the mids, as explained in the amp book by Dan Torres. I used to push my amps so hard that I got just a bunch of mids.

The usual claim is that power amp distortion sounds bigger, bolder. But really, it has more to do with high volume than hpwever the power amp is colouring the tone.

Guitar amps are not hi fi amps....their personality lies in colouring the tone in various ways, and each tube amp does it differently, making them all unique.

Now I do the opposite: I keep the master at the lowest setting possible, because I DO want the lows and clarity, as I now favour a modern metal tone. The best way to get a focused tone is from the PREAMP, not the power amp. In fact, I had started to use hybrid amps after making innumerable tests between tube power amps and MOSFET power amps. The tube power amp doesn't add anything at LOW master volume, which is what I know use.

And I can tell you, Amplitube DEFINITELY simulates ALL that stuff, and it varies with the amp models. I checked all of it. So with a Vox or Marshall amp you get more power amp compression, whereas with an Engl the power amp is almost entirely clean. That's exactly how it works in real life. So definitely the Amplitube team isn't messing around.

But who knows how it does it? Don't worry about it. Computer science. But yeah, IK Multimedia isn't hyping its product at all, that much I can tell you. It's all pretty accurate!
The reality is that Amplitube has a lot more going below the surface, than people think.

But if I had to say what are the main ingredients for a killer tone in a tube amp, it really is sheer volume. All else is more relative, though certainly not unimportant.

[machinated]

This is a VERY long subject.... I have been obsessed with power amp distortion in tube amps for many years. Tried every crazy things imaginable. I am not a tech, yet I learned to even replace output transformers in tube amps, bias them, mod them (within reason). All I can tell you is this: power amp distortion in tube amps is overrated. What happens in a all tube amp is that when you turn up the master volume, the power amp will start to compress. This is the section after the preamp, which includes the driver section a.k.a. phase splitter (the one 12 ax7 that looks like part of the preamp, but it's not, and has more distance from the preamp tubes ) and the power tubes, along the output transformer.

In a nutshell: the power amp starts compressing, and the treble and lows start to roll off, pushing out the mids, as explained in the amp book by Dan Torres. I used to push my amps so hard that I got just a bunch of mids.

Now I do the opposite: I keep the master at the lowest setting possible, because I DO want the lows and clarity, as I now favour a modern metal tone. The best way to get a focused tone is from the PREAMP, not the power amp. In fact, I had started to use hybrid amps after making innumerable tests between tube power amps and MOSFET power amps. The tube power amp doesn't add anything at LOW master volume, which is what I know use.

And I can tell you, Amplitube DEFINITELY simulates ALL that stuff, and it varies with the amp models. I checked all of it. So with a Vox or Marshall amp you get more power amp compression, whereas with an Engl the power amp is almost entirely clean. That's exactly how it works in real life. So definitely the Amplitube team isn't messing around.

But who knows how it does it? Don't worry about it. Computer science. But yeah, IK Multimedia isn't hyping its product at all, that much I can tell you. It's all pretty accurate!
The reality is that Amplitube has a lot more going below the surface, than people think.

I agree with you regarding poweramp distortion. There is more to a poweramp’s behaviour than just that though - specifically negative feedback and how the connected load affects the sound of the amp. This can drastically alter the presence and depth behaviours too.

IK has some excellent technology under the hood, but they have a poor track record on giving information on what is going on.

This is the case for a number of things - input levels, power amp modelling, specifics on amp/cab/speaker models and what they have modelled. It would be great to have more information from IK, it would really help users get the most out of their excellent products.

[SenecaReader2]

You are absolutely correct about the negative feedback.

My fav mod has always been to disconnect any negative feedback from any amp I use. This will in many cases frees the amp up, and in some give a beautiful roaring overdrive when the power amp is cranked.

As for what you say about IK not divulging too much information, this is a pattern I see with many brands of products for guitarists, and the answer is this:

Most guitarists are ignorant, and dumb too. Not all of course, and obviously that is not your case. If you give them technical information, it will be classed as "gimmicks" (stupid people call "gimmicks" anything they don't understand).

Case in point, Bugera amps. It is the ONLY brand that offers the incredible Infinium tech, which you won't find in amps costing 6 times more. This is , I believe, Behringer's take at the TubeSync by Aston Electronics. Incredible stuff. Orange Amps used to sell something similar as a mod, which costed about 500 bucks, and you had to pay a tech to get it installed.

So Bugera offered this for basically FREE, really a killer feature in a tube amp. And what did they get? 85 per cent of guitarists bitching and moaning about it being all a "gimmick" and "hype".

I am not surprised Amplitube tries to "keep it simple" . Most guitarists are simpletons, although, again, I am not speaking of all. And some are smart people, but they aren't the rule.

[SenecaReader2]

but yeah, as for power amp voodoo, I have done it all. Variacs, pushing 30 dbs of boost directly into the power amp via the fx loop, modding the power amp for different tubes or different bias styles, i.e. cathode bias instead of fixed, substituting different models of output transformers.....you name it. Not to mention, getting zapped almost lethally (NEVER touch a tube amp's innards, even with the amp off, it can be deadly. ).

It's great stuff for more vintage types of tones, pre 1980's , I'd say....but now I just want a killer, modern metal sound, and this can only come from a great preamp and a great speaker cabinet. The power amp to me just provides power.

Really, now for me it has to be either a hybrid (tube preamp and solid state power amp) or a Bugera. Or a fav preamp with a class D power amp, which are very small and very powerful.

A tube power amp to me now is like needing a Ferrari to go to the supermarket. It's just overkill. By the way, high wattage all tube amps will soon be phased out....my prediction is that all that will remain will be tube preamps (which to me are irreplaceable) and small, lightweight and economical class D power amps to provide as much power as needed.

But of course it's great to have a huge collection of vintage amps in Amplitube

[SenecaReader2]

PS. and I must say, Amplitube simulates tube preamps quite nicely, too.

And this is said by someone who 15 years ago would have rather been eating glass than using ANY amp sim.