Syntronic vs Syntronic 2 & Sound Libraries

[bacarlino]

Hello - I'm new to IK Multimedia and to music production in general. I've purchased the Total Studio 3.5 pack and noticed both Syntronic and Syntronic 2 are licensed in the Product Manager.

I haven't used either one beyond opening them up and poking around, but it seems like #2 covers everything #1 did and more, so is installing the original one unnecessary?

Also it seems there's a ton of redundancy in the sound files as well. For instance the Syntronic 2 sounds install to their own "Syntronic 2" folder by default while the original Syntronic sounds install to the SampleTank 3 folder. The concern I have is there are some identically named packages here... after doing a full install of every sound pack covered under the license there are a lot of identically named folders and files that exist in both places (based on file names and sizes matching up). From what I can tell all of the original Syntronic files living in SampleTank 3 are also in the newer Syntronic 2 folder. If it's truly redundant and I don't need Syntronic (application) or it's files in SampleTank 3 (folder) then that saves over 70 GB of space.

Please advise and let me know your thoughts and the best approach here! Space is a concern, so that's the reason this has even become a thing for me. I'm looking for maximum effecience in both the installation as well as backing up the library.

[DarkStar]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

No, you do not need the original Syntronik ("Syn1") software or its library. Syntronik 2 ("Syn2") includes all 22 synths from Syn1 Deluxe, and adds many more presets to those synths. And the Syn2 software includes includes the Syn1 engine to process those older presets,

As long as you have installed all the Syn2 downloads you should see all 22 synths, with a mixture of presets (those with a .st3i file extension are "Generation 1", that is from Syn1, and those with a .st4i file extension are "Generation 2", that is added for Syn2.

When you ran the Syn2 sounds installers, did all the sounds go into the same main folder or did the older ones go into folders within a SampleTank 3 folder?

[bacarlino]

Thanks, that's very helpful.

I'm not entirely sure exactly which packs placed which files where. There's a bit of confusion because the overall large Syn2 sound pack seems to include all of the other sound packs inside of it already (Blau, Bully, 99, Galaxy, etc.) even though those are all listed individually alongside of it. That isn't exactly made clear so I was just going along installing everything unknowingly.

--- What happened was I had messed up the file structure a bit accidentally changing the default locations and my OCD couldn't handle it, so I nuked my original install and started from scratch methodically. That's how I noticed this redundancy between the larger pack and the individual ones.

It seems had I just installed the pack labeled "Syntronic 2" (Download size 63.6) I might have been good to go? Are the individual packs listed here just to provide the user options to pick and choose? Or is this just how the system is setup on the server side - displaying everything that's technically licensed to me whether it's redundant or not? The problem with this is if anybody is doing it the way I did, just installing everything, they are eating up WAY more space on their hard drives than necessary unfortunately.

Either way your response is helpful and I will experiment with removing the Syntronic related files from the SampleTank 3 folder, uninstalling Syntronic (Syn1), and then playing around in Syn2 to see if I have access to everything. Thanks!

[DarkStar]

I think that you get the big Syn2 download and the individual ones, so that you can pick and choose, or download / install them one at a time, or select the big one and go out for a long walk I prefer the individual installs as trouble-shooting would be easier.

Here I have these folders:
l:/IK Multimedia/SampleTank 3 (including the original Syn1 library, installed some time ago)
l:/IK Multimedia/SampleTank 4
l:/IK Multimedia/Syntronik 2

This FAQ may help: https://www.ikmultimedia.com/faq/index.php?id=1239

Your approach seems sensible - except I would just rename the Syn1 folders in the ST3 library first, rather than delete them. Then you can restore them if needed. And, when you are happy with the Syn2 library (including Syn1 synths) make a back-up of the complete installed Syn2 library, so you won't need to download/install it again (unless you have a double disk failure).

[bacarlino]

Thanks again DarkStar, I think I'm good to go now!

Currently nothing Syntronic related exists in my SampleTron 3 folder with only the Syntronic 2 folder remaining and everything seems to be there and working within Syn2, so this saves me tons of space on both my working drive and the backup.

Additionally, I had installed both MODO BASS and 2, but it looks like 2 fully replaces the original, so I'm opting to keep just MODO BASS 2 - even though the Total Studio 3.5 license only covers the original.

My overall installed IK sounds library is sitting at 435 GB and structured like this:

..\MODO DRUM
..\SampleTank 3
..\SampleTank 4
..\SampleTron 2
..\Syntronic 2

This also now perfectly fits on an old 500GB drive I have laying around for backing up - it didn't with the redundant Syn1 sounds in there.

A couple of other observations I made during my installs -

- The SampleTank libraries don't seem to include all of the individual packs, so it's really hard to know from the outside which individual ones do and don't need to be installed. Looking inside of the downloaded ZIP folder there are installers for maybe 80% of the packs while the remaining I had downloaded separately. None of this is a big deal, but it just seems a little bit confusing on the outside. I consider myself on the "very" tech savy side of things, but I have to imagine there are people that are really struggling with this. The big all-in-one packs should list which packages are included.

- Also there should be some sort of clear messaging in the Product Manager as to the default install locations made by the installer (I did notice that the manuals do an OK job of portraying this info for most off the apps). But my first install attempt I went through each sound, clicked "Install too..." and chose a folder I made named IK Multimedia. The problem is this mashed all the different app sounds into one base folder. Not a big deal if the apps are pointed to the right location I guess, but for organization purposes and keeping things tidy it was a mess. For my second install attempt I had to dig through the manuals for each app to learn the intended subfolder structure that I have above and ultimately just let it install do it's default folder before moving it over to my desired drive.

- The Miroslav Philharmonic 2 app wasn't working for me in Windows 10, but I found the workaround here in the forum about installing the previous version and then updating in the Product Manager. That worked for me.

All in all I'm glad to have the install complete and I'm excited to get started making music!

[DarkStar]

You can find a full list of included products here:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/ts3/index.php?p=versions#compare

[rolandk1]

June 2024. Just bought the Total Studio 4 Max product line.

I agree. For a novice at IKMM's way of handling software and downloads, it's incredibly confusing and over complicated. But I want to address something said here earlier by DarkStar, which is that by downloading Syntronik 2, you avoid the need to install v1 because apparently it has everything from v1 included. This can't be true. Here's why

I'm downloading files now (day in/day out) and just noticed that SYN2_Galaxy is 158 mb and the update is even smaller. HOWEVER, the original v1 files SYN_Galaxy_Part1 and Part 2 are both OVER 3.5GB in size. In other words, v2 cannot have 7GB of files from v1 in it.

Am I reading this wrong or is there something that's going over my head here? v1 = 7GB whereas v2 = < 200mb. How can they have the same content in them?

[DarkStar]

Maybe I was wrong. Can you check that you have all the Galaxy instruments listed in the PDF and that they all load OK?

[rolandk1]

Maybe I was wrong. Can you check that you have all the Galaxy instruments listed in the PDF and that they all load OK?

Hello DarkStar.

Specifically, which PDF are you referring to? The PDF manual for Syntronik does not list any instruments at all, only the aspects of the interface, installation, etc.

Also, there are 4 Galaxy dmg (Mac archives) listed for the Max product server section. I have all of those downloaded and checked, which is why I spoke up that v1 could not possibly replace v2 as you had said.

However, apparently v1 is "updated" by a v2 install. Maybe this is where you got confused? If you're a long time user, then you probably didn't have to deal with starting from scratch like so many of us are now doing as a result of the price-slashing purchase incentives from IKMM.

They're definitely going to have to clean house where organization and instructions are concerned because there's a lot of mention of this topic on the internet OUTSIDE of this forum.

I like the products themselves. The install shouldn't change people's opinion about wanting to use those products, don't you agree?

[DarkStar]

Yes, I am confused - the last time I look at the folders / files was a long, long time ago.

Anyway, I had installed Syn1 in 2018 and Syn2 in 2021. As far as I can see, I installed the Syn1 library INTO the SampleTank 3 library folder, so that I could use them in STY3 as well as in Syn1. Later on I installed Syn2 into its own Syntronik 2 library folder. I set Syn2's Preferences to point to both library folders.

Now, as to the contents,
- for the Syn1 instruments their main content in is the ST3 library,
- for those Syn1 instruments there are some add-ons in the Syn2 library (instrument definitions, wave sets and sample files)
-- for the instrument newly introduced in Syb2, their content is in the Syn2 library.

To respond to your original question I reckon the you should install the contents of all the downloaded files. As you do not have ST3 or Syn1 it might be OK to install ALL the Syntronik content into a single Syntronik1 library folder.

Looking back at my 2022 post, I think that there was (then?) a single Syn2 library download that would install everything (including all the original Syn1 synths). But, if no-one else chips in, your best bet is to check with Tech Support.

[rolandk1]

Yes, I am confused - the last time I look at the folders / files was a long, long time ago...
To respond to your original question I reckon the you should install the contents of all the downloaded files. As you do not have ST3 or Syn1 it might be OK to install ALL the Syntronik content into a single Syntronik1 library folder.
...

Thanks for your reply.

I cannot use the Product Manager on my systems so I use two separate apps and d/l each file individually rather than as a single collection.

What I noticed is that the SYN_(*) version one files, aside from not opening in Monterey, want to install in ST3 (as you suggested). The SYN2_(*) files seem to want to open into ST4. However, I'm going to install all into a single SYNTRONIC library folder.

I'm still working out a system for using all the content. There is so much of it and without definitive instructions or a reliable d/l app, things can get wonky pretty fast.

As for the sounds, I'm pleased with a lot of what I've heard. Even the drum kits, despite being a bit of a struggle to handle as a separate mix, all sound good. No regrets with my purchase. Just wish the "system" came more to the aid of IKMM newbies without having to call upon tech support. For instance, one instruction for the Product Manager mentioned options no longer available in that interface. Frustrating, to say the least.

[Trensharo]

Yes, I am confused - the last time I look at the folders / files was a long, long time ago...
To respond to your original question I reckon the you should install the contents of all the downloaded files. As you do not have ST3 or Syn1 it might be OK to install ALL the Syntronik content into a single Syntronik1 library folder.
...

Thanks for your reply.

I cannot use the Product Manager on my systems so I use two separate apps and d/l each file individually rather than as a single collection.

What I noticed is that the SYN_(*) version one files, aside from not opening in Monterey, want to install in ST3 (as you suggested). The SYN2_(*) files seem to want to open into ST4. However, I'm going to install all into a single SYNTRONIC library folder.

I'm still working out a system for using all the content. There is so much of it and without definitive instructions or a reliable d/l app, things can get wonky pretty fast.

As for the sounds, I'm pleased with a lot of what I've heard. Even the drum kits, despite being a bit of a struggle to handle as a separate mix, all sound good. No regrets with my purchase. Just wish the "system" came more to the aid of IKMM newbies without having to call upon tech support. For instance, one instruction for the Product Manager mentioned options no longer available in that interface. Frustrating, to say the least.

Syntronik 1 goes into the SampleTank 3 Content folder. Syntronik 2 goes into its own Content Folder.

Syntronik 2 will automatically add the SampleTank 3 Content Folder as a Scan Path and index them when you run.

SampleTank 4 supports all of these libraries and will automatically index all SampleTank 3, Syntronik 2 and SampleTron 2 Content Folders when you run it (in addition to its own).

Earlier Libraries like Syntronik and Philharmonik 2 go into the SampleTank 3 Folder (though you can probably install them to their own and add the scan path, to ease uninstallation/removal if needed later - but that's easy to do regardless). The folder structure for ST4 Library Content is slightly different than for ST3. Installing them all together creates a bit of a mess of that.

Because Syntronik is Sample-based, this makes them predominantly preset-based as well. Syntronik 1 has a lot of presets that aren't part of Syntronik 2, which is why you install both... By doing that, you have both the Syntronik 1 and Syntronik 2 presets for all the instruments shared between the two.

Storage is cheap enough that it shouldn't be a massive issue for most people. 2TB SSDs are in the $100 range, these days. I got two 2TB Intel PCIe3 SSDs for $75 each last year.

[rolandk1]

Syntronik 1 goes into the SampleTank 3 Content folder. Syntronik 2 goes into its own Content Folder.
[etc.]

Thank you for this comprehensive reply. While common sense was guiding me to some of the same conclusions, it's nice that you added extra info about the presets.

Wish the company had something like this to guide new users from the start. The TRackS Max download section on the website, for instance, only goes to version 5.33, whereas the TRackS regular version includes the 5.10 update and information. It seems they have too much stuff to keep track of themselves. But like I said, I like the sounds I'm hearing, and in the end, that's all that matters to us music makers...

Thanks again.

[JoopJoop]

To change the directory to some other place for some instrument, I would move the instrument file, sample file and library info file to the new place and scan all instruments. Would I miss something there?

[rolandk1]

To change the directory to some other place for some instrument, I would move the instrument file, sample file and library info file to the new place and scan all instruments. Would I miss something there?

I would probably just use the install file to make a duplicate in the new location. Or if you don't want to do that, you can open it to use as a reference point to check which files you need to move. What you mentioned is the typical content, but some instruments have other stuff attached that you might also want to transfer to the new location.

Not speaking form a depth of personal experience here, but it's just something I've noticed along the way to learning about the IK way of doing things.